Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

vfitom,

I thought you "were done here"?


Jason

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Yup, just wanted to mention that last item. Thanks for asking.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Officer Tom - Do you mean when it was blue or when it was blue and white? You're awful interested in this thread - almost like you're the one involved in the pending junk yard "discovery" story. Do you know what color it was before blue?

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

In 1990, this car was for sale and in an area not mentioned in all of the above posts, and also was painted a different color than red, green, white,

Tom, why dont you just tell us what you know? Why do you make these random posts that make it sound like you know everything there is to know about the car, yet never give any info about it?

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pulnaway</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In 1990, this car was for sale and in an area not mentioned in all of the above posts, and also was painted a different color than red, green, white,

Tom, why dont you just tell us what you know? Why do you make these random posts that make it sound like you know everything there is to know about the car, yet never give any info about it? </div></div>

I can understand Tom's position, if there is something fishy in the past it might not be wise to divulge the details when its someone elses car. If its a story about the car being offered in an envelope - that's fairly benign, however, if you have evidence of the tampering that's a different story!

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Marlin - I have tried to talk to Tom - just him and me in a conversation. He won't even allow me to call him and won't call me. I keep giving him info via emails and then he posts the things he learns through my info like they are some kind of revelation. I'm just after the complete truth about this car. I know where the car was sold in 1990 - I'm already speaking to the guy who sold it! Tom was a PA State Police officer when he looked at the car in 2000 - obviously not good!!!!

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

I agree with what you are saying. I would think that he would have given Bruce all of the info he had, yet he makes random posts that seem to PURPOSELY ad more questions than answers. Im sure I'm not the only one that can see through his posts.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Bergy,


I can appreciate the research you are doing and the fact that you are laying everything down here. Your attitude of facts are facts, good or bad, is commendable. That said, why not just call Tom? A quick google search of his email address gives more than enough contact info. Here are a few examples:


http://www.hemmingsdigital.com/hemmi.../?pg=178#pg178

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...;userid=vfitom

http://goantiques.collectingclubs.co...=868&amp;fmt=3

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Tom told me via email (I contacted him) that he does not want to speak to me. I invited him to my home, offered to go to his home, etc. At one point he suggested that the people who showed him the car in 2000 said something that &quot;led him to a junk yard&quot;. When I explained to him that those folks knew nothing about the history of the car - he began searching for another angle. I told him that this car, with this vin attached, has been in its current configuration since at least 1985. I have pictures of it going back 20+ years with the same goofy piece broken in the grille. Now he's back for more info.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

http://www.hemmingsdigital.com/hemmi.../?pg=178#pg178


wow, that's quite an ad. &quot;preventing disappointment&quot; [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/santa.gif[/img]

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Bergy, I did not search for other angles. I went from notes we had taken at the time. I tried to help you, but you got cocky and personal, even mentioning my profession in a negative manner. Shame on you! I not once mentioned yours. I hoped you would answer my questions that I asked you a short time ago. You elected not to. The seller was advised in 2000 of how to rememdy his situation, but he did not. And now you have this vehicle. Good luck, and I really mean that in a positive manner! I hope you were told the truth in all your past inquiries............. And I know zero about an envelope..........

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Tom - It's pretty obvious to everyone that has read your comments what you are doing. I appologize if I have offended you. When I received your demand that I answer 7 questions (before you would help me) - I didn't take it well. I'm happy to post our emails if you want the record to be clear (only with your permission).

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Junk yard = Klingers in Pine Grove??

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Bergy:

Anonymous information from a non-paying member without a complete profile should be taken with a grain of salt. He appears to be in this for the money given his Hemmings Ad. I would simply move on with your investigation. I would have thought that a retired police officer would/should be one of the most forth-coming individuals on the planet. I guess not?

There's a lot of trolls in the forest. Ed

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Not true Ed. Not for the money via Hemmings; just for knowledge. Before I gave out info I just wanted some in return, which I never got. Thats all. I apologize to all who I may offended.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Tom - Your post re - &quot;I hope you were told the truth&quot; is interesting. You're always trying to sow seeds of doubt. I wonder why? My sources have all given me permission to reveal their names and telephone numbers (hardly the m.o. liars). You, however, are very secretive (even anonymous and non-paying). You do, however, know someone who frequents junk yards and &quot;discovers&quot; rare cars in them. HMMMMMMM.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Tom - Your Hemmings ad lists item #3 - &quot;restoration of vin's&quot;. Have I interrupted your &quot;discovery&quot;? I can't be certain of this, but 2+2 does still equal 4. Were you intending to try to &quot;restore my vin&quot; on your &quot;discovery&quot;? Who could be paying you to do this? It's out in the open now - you might as well be forthcoming. A huge percentage of my car is #616414. Using inside contacts with the police to accomplish a plan like this (without disclosing the details of my car) would certainly be unethical and possibly illegal.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Bergy,
A huge percentage of your car is 616414? Are you serious? You have yet to prove that and have not presented anything factual to support that. If you have additional info, lay it out there. I simply can not believe where this thread has gone. I personally see nothing wrong with anything vfitom is doing. The burden of proof is on bergy. Maybe vfitom is waiting to see how bergy presents this car before he speaks. I do not know either bergy of vfitom so I have no vested interest either way. I do know that over the years there have been a lot of fakes and rebodies passed of as real so I would say that bergy has alot of footwork to do and facts to present before a statement like &quot;a large percentage of my car is 616414&quot;. Its obvious that people want to give bergy the benefit of the doubt and he may be a nice guy but cmon, this is rediculous!If we are judging the car on facts alone at this point, it does not look good for bergy imo.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

COPO140 - I'm just looking for the truth. Talking to old owners and getting their statements. So far it's pretty encouraging. You have posted the same thing about 9 times so far on this thread - we hear you. I'll just keep going with my investigation.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

I just have a few questions since you want to get a little smart with me.1. Why do you make the statement &quot;a large percentage of my car is 616414&quot;? 2. Has the vin been off and re-attached to the car? And 3. Does the car retain any part of it's original firewall? Please dont skirt the issue when you make a statement like &quot;a large percentage of my car is 616414, that's how cars begin to become real. What facts do you have?

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

not trying to be smart copo140 - you'd have to read my posts to get the answers to your concerns. You know the answer to the vin stamp on the top of the cowl. Just let me continue my research and get the sworn statements explaining how this car got to its current state. The DMV called yesterday and said they had more transactions for me.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Can you please answer the question about the dash vin being off and re-attached to the car? Has it been? Also, can you please answer the question regarding your statement of &quot;a large percentage of your car being 616414&quot;? I would really like to hear what you have to say. Oh and btw bergy, your attempt to discredit vfitom is nothing short of pathetic. If it were me, I would be very insulted about your statements.
Also to x baldwin motion, what is your point by posting that link? Are you and bergy buddies? The ad looks very helpful to me.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

ok, that makes TWO of them now ... where do these people come from and who pissed on their corn flakes?

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

WOW man, chill! You are getting way out there now! The only thing &quot;out in the open&quot; is you assuming things! I have no idea what you are talking about when you mention someone could be paying me. I have no personal interest in this car other than the true history of it because I looked at it... It is interesting. And it is a retag any way you look at it. Period. Even if the firewall was replaced. But, I am willing to bet that the firewall was never replaced. AND, FYI, Restoration of a VIN is the use of special acid to bring up stamped confidential VINs that were ground off. That's what is meant by that, and not actual VIN plates. Actually it should read restoration of a confidential VIN, my error in the ad. We did restorations on engine stamps after deckings. It also applies to applying for and obtaining state replacement VINs. Comeon man, stop attacking me and my prior job, and go out and pull the fender &amp; heater box and check for welds and let us all know.....

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

I think even though Tom has come off as a bit 'mysterious' (please do not take offense Tom but you haev been) in this discussion Tom, from his Hemmings ad, states he is a retired State Trooper with 17 years in the Fraud Investigation Division and probably knows more about researching cars than all of us combined. Due respect to Tom....

No idea why Tom will not contact Bergy and they can discuss this car. Obviously Bergy is a hell of a stand up guy with no ill agenda. No idea why the two can not share info on this car.

Now can we stop being like a bunch of children and act like adults? Bergy is not trying to make this car anything other than what it is or might be. I sure don't think anyone on here is as transparent about what they have in there garage and what it started out as. And he will only state the car being a true sueprcar if he can prove it with documentation.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

I would appreciate if everyone took it down a notch. This site is not about personal attacks period.

Regarding the car I don't (personally) care about affidavits and he said she said stuff. The only thing that will determine the %orig/pedigree of this car is a physical inspection which bergy states will be done and documented. To me that is where the rubber hits the road. The history is interesting and I do commend you for your owner research info. The fact remains that it only tells you so much, and is subjective.

Lets please move on and keep this discussion civil or take it off line.

Thanks,

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

I would like to know about the statement &quot;a huge percentage of my car is 616414&quot;.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paceme</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would appreciate if everyone took it down a notch. This site is not about personal attacks period.

Regarding the car I don't (personally) care about affidavits and he said she said stuff. The only thing that will determine the %orig/pedigree of this car is a physical inspection which bergy states will be done and documented. To me that is where the rubber hits the road. The history is interesting and I do commend you of your owner search info. The fact remains that it only tells you so much, and is subjective.
<span style="font-weight: bold">
Lets please move on and keep this discussion civil or take it off line.</span>

Thanks,



</div></div>

agreed, yet we still get responses like the one above

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Lets please move on and keep this discussion civil or take it off line.
[/quote]

I hope it stays online. This is quite entertaining.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Re post #435631, 2nd paragraph: why I will not talk on the phone is because I do not totally trust Bergy, and also because I was asked by Bergy the following in an email, &quot;Do you recall offering to sell the car to anyone after you looked at it?&quot; Well, I never owned the car to sell it; I never offered it for sale as a whole or in an envelope afterwards; I never even knew about the envelope story until this thread came about. When I asked 6 questions about the envelope sale issue, I never received any answers from Bergy. But yet he wants all info from me..not gonna happen now.......and...I think someone is confusing me with someone else and I know exactly why and can prove it, but it will get other people involved and I do not want to go there. The element of trust is missing here and that is why I am mysterious. I'm sorry now that I even offered info in the first place, since it led to personal attacks on me. I'd like to know about the huge percentage also as requested above...BTW: PennDot records only go back 10 years, and from what I was told the microfische was also scuttled.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Jim (al8apex),
What is wrong with my request? Bergy made the statement that a large percentage of his car is 616414 so its reasonable to ask why he is stating that. Apparently Bergy has found some additional info about the car beyond the things he has listed. If he has not, why would such a statement be made? The whole idea behind this thread is to get to the truth about the car. NONE of my requests have been out of line or unreasonable, period.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vfitom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Re post #435631, 2nd paragraph: why I will not talk on the phone is because I do not totally trust Bergy, and also because I was asked by Bergy the following in an email, &quot;Do you recall offering to sell the car to anyone after you looked at it?&quot; Well, I never owned the car to sell it; I never offered it for sale as a whole or in an envelope afterwards; I never even knew about the envelope story until this thread came about. When I asked 6 questions about the envelope sale issue, I never received any answers from Bergy. But yet he wants all info from me..not gonna happen now.......and...<span style="font-weight: bold">I think someone is confusing me with someone else and I know exactly why and can prove it, but it will get other people involved and I do not want to go there.</span> The element of trust is missing here and that is why I am mysterious. I'm sorry now that I even offered info in the first place, since it led to personal attacks on me. I'd like to know about the huge percentage also as requested above...BTW: PennDot records only go back 10 years, and from what I was told the microfische was also scuttled.

</div></div>

This sure is interesting and I don't have a dog in the fight whatsoever. Are you you suggesting you can prove why you are being confused with someone else? I am just asking for clarification.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

&quot;BTW: PennDot records only go back 10 years, and from what I was told the microfische was also scuttled. &quot;

When using the DL-135 form from the PA-DMV, you can check the box for a Title History. If the history is older than 10 years, they will 'usually' search the fiche. If a record is found, you will receive a Vehicle Record Abstract. There are certain fiche records that are indeed gone, reportedly from a flood.

I'm impressed that Bergy has someone from the PA-DMV calling him, I've never been that successfull - nor with such quick turn around times!

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

You guys kill me; the majority of people who have posted on this thread act as if Bergy owes you some sort of justification regarding <span style="font-weight: bold">HIS</span> car. As far as I can see he has been more than patient with many of you considering the undertones of what some have said.

Bergy keep digging for the truth, I surely hope this car turns out to be what you suspect it is. As you have made clear to everyone here; you buy these cars for the enjoyment and part of your fun is doing the research. I would ignore the naysayers; as far as I can tell you don't owe anyone a thing.

I'm sure I will get flamed for this post but, I am getting tired of seeing you get beat up over something that is no ones' business but your own.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

X2

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

Dave, I see no reason for you to get flamed. I agree with you. Given all the negativity, Bergy has posted WAY more info than I would have.
James

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

vfitom-

As a member of this community you should be freely forth coming with any information that you have in regards to this car. I dont in my opinion feel that bergy should have to pass some litman's test that you have designated in regards to a car that he rightfully owns regardless of the history of it or how it got to this point.

I think all of us need to look at the objective of Yenko.net. In my eyes we are all here to share information, knowledge, history, facts, or just a common general interest in the muscle cars of the late 60's and early 70's, With this being said, I dont think that any member should come here with a potential level of knowledge regarding a vehicle of discussion and expect anything more than a thank you from anyone that can use that knowledge to thier's or all our benefit. Noone should have to earn access to any information or be held at bay with a carrot dangling in thier face of supposed information that will only be provided based on the knowledge owner's decision. If you come here without the free will and desire to openly share knowledge, hold open and fruitful discussion, share memories or even just express your desire to gain knowledge I think I speak for many to say you may very well not be welcome in this open forum. This applies to anyone that fits this category of one sided membership and forum participation.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Rifkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys kill me; the majority of people who have posted on this thread act as if Bergy owes you some sort of justification regarding <span style="font-weight: bold">HIS</span> car. As far as I can see he has been more than patient with many of you considering the undertones of what some have said.

Bergy keep digging for the truth, I surely hope this car turns out to be what you suspect it is. As you have made clear to everyone here; you buy these cars for the enjoyment and part of your fun is doing the research. I would ignore the naysayers; as far as I can tell you don't owe anyone a thing.

I'm sure I will get flamed for this post but, I am getting tired of seeing you get beat up over something that is no ones' business but your own.

</div></div>

I don't think anyone is out to get Bergy personally here, but he has made statements based on circumstantial observations, other people's recollections, etc... that many are simply asking to be backed up. Its not complicated, and in the end the car will be the final spokesperson. We've seen many a car like this one turn out with some fantastic tale that somehow justifies some type of integrity, next thing ya know tags and stampings appear.

So, I think Bergy wants the car to retain as much integrity as possible, the best way to do that is by doing the three things right: 1. discussing the car in the open, before the story is fully know - can be a bit painful as we all go through the maze, but it will be better in the long run. 2. finding out the word of mouth story, even the inconsistencies. 3. eventually will take the car apart and photo it.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

COPO140 - Re-read your own posts. You went from saying that the car had &quot;a few bolt on items&quot;, to possibly a &quot;sub frame&quot;, to &quot;possibly some sheet metal&quot;. You've acknowledged all of these possibilities yourself (and you aren't even the one doing the research).

Marlin - you get a lot more cooperation at DMV if you're researching cars that you actually own. Also, you have to pay for every record. If you send in $5.00, you get one record.

vfitom - You have 25 years with the PA State Police - many of us consider you a hero (including me)! Get your courage up man. Since you have disclosed info from our personal email conversation - you're email statements indicate that you are obviously afraid to disclose information because people &quot;in the know&quot; are mad about the envelope story disclosure. You've indicated to me that the owners of #616414 in 2000 made statements that &quot;led you to a junkyard (in a round about way)&quot;. You have also indicated that there was another &quot;Tom&quot; present during your 2000 inspection and he may have been the source of the envelope story. Come on man - we're on the 24th page of this stinkin' thread! What are you waiting for - tell what you know.

To all - It's pretty obvious that this is a BLOOD SPORT (not a hobby). When a guy like vfitom is intimidated - wow.

Re: E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bergy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To all - It's pretty obvious that this is a BLOOD SPORT (not a hobby). When a guy like vfitom is intimidated - wow. </div></div>

Did you check the trunk for Jimmy Hoffa's skeleton yet?

Seriously, what's with all the Super Secret Squirrel action? Is somebody going to get whacked? It either is a Yenko or it isnt, but nobody is gonna know for sure until all the info is out in the open.