Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

http://www.trainweb.org/milwaukee/mybaby.JPG

It's an 80's resto that could stand to be redone, but it's presentable. Drivetrain is getting done currently, but I plan to repaint the stripes in black and the wheels argent to make it correct appearancewise.

Thanks for the support guys. Hope to be able to make the SCR. Perhaps Rusty would like to do battle with another Olds? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif

Guess I better throw something in the donation jar. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Nice Car!
I would enjoy seeing more of it at any scheduled shows you plan on attending this year.

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

I'm going to TRY to get my '68 Olds looking presentable and running strong before SCR... I'd love to bring it along and play with the big dogs. Right now money and time is limited for me, so we'll see.

I've got a question for anyone who has had a fair amount of experience Olds big blocks. I've got my choice to either put together a '70 455 OR a '65 425 or the original '68 350. Which would be the better choice? I've been leaning toward the 425 ... but now I'm unsure. Anyone been there done that? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif I have all 3 engines all requiring about the same amount of work to put them together.

What I want to end up with is a '68 Olds that looks like it rolled out of Motion Performance at one time or another https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif It'll be Day 2 to the hilt for sure. I will settle for nothing less! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

JoeG.. you have any more pics of the Motion Oldsmobiles anywhere???? Or anyone else have any?

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

I hear the 425 is not the best choice...go with the 455....Olds guys can chime in but the 425 has a wierd bore and stroke or something...

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Pretty sure the stroke in the 425 is similar to the 400 --but obviously the bore is larger---Would be nice to do W-31 clone you could cam it to get good response with the turbo---You would have to do a little more tinkering with the 350 than the 455----Probably would get more Grunt for less money with the 455--

What photos are you looking for--

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Joe. Any photos of Oldsmobiles done by Motion. I've seen very few.. maybe 3 or 4. I know there's probably not alot out there but if you know of any more I'd love to see em.

Bob. The early 425 like I have has a different degree lifter bank angle and size than the 400-455s of 67-up. I believe the bore is the same as a 455, just shorter stroke. I know a good bit about Oldsmobiles, I was just wanting to hear some input from guys with real world experience that's already been past the stages I'm at right now with these engines. I've owned big block Oldsmobiles since 1997.... but I have YET to actually have one in a car running.. haha. I don't know whats its even like to drive a big block Olds.. just haven't had, or made, the opportunity to do so yet. I've always run Chevys. But I've always loved Olds. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif go figure.. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Before W 30's went nuts I was looking at 69 vs 70....all the Olds people I talked to said go with the 455...they talked about internals..

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Holler at dehw31...he worked at Oldsmobile for umpteen years, and still has the '68 W31 he bought and walked down the assemblly line. He lives and breathes all things Olds...

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

There ya go ED--if you talk to dehw31-ask him if he was familiar with the Motion/Markowitz Cars--Maybe he has new info or photos-------------- https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

I know some, but I have never claimed to be an expert. You are correct that some 425's had a different lifter bank angle, not really a problem if you know it up front as there are cams made for that angle. The 425's had steel cranks and were notorious for being quick reving BB's (sound familiar to all of your owning 427's!) The big bonus for the 455 is the extra cubes and that most everything in the aftermarket (There are some things out there https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif) is geared to the big block (but everything that fits on the 455 will fit the 425 as well). However, it was correctly stated that you need to talk with Dave and Casey. Anyone who can make a Pure Stock small block run in the 12's has some good ideas. I am planning on being at SCR8, so if you need to have a ride in a slow boat, let me know! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

65 400 is a destroked 425 having been an oldsmobile nut for a number of years 70 455 with all the correct pieces is a top notch choice only thing better is a 70 W30 455 just my 2cents hope it helps https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/3gears.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/flag.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Well this may be more info than you need, I wrote this in response to an email from Rob before I saw this post. Anyhow, here's the breakdown on 425 vs 455 with the 400 derivatives of each added in.

Anyhow, the 425 is basically the same as the 455 except for the larger stroke on the 455 (4.25) vs 4.0 on the 425. Bores are same at 4.125. The 425 was used in the big cars from 65-67 and the 455 replaced it in 1968 and ran until 1976.

The shorter stroke on the 425's made them higher revving (with more peak horsepower up high), but less torque all through the power band. They both had excellent metallurgy in the blocks (at least the early 455's did), and used very similar heads (67 425 and and 68 455 heads were both C castings and identical). 425's also used a forged crank vs a nodular iron cast crank on the 455's. Later 455's used crap cast iron cranks (73-76). 425's also used long 7 inch rods.

425's had some wierd valve and cam arrangements. Each year they tried something new until they realized, they just didn't last in the high rev areas (over 6k). They tried to keep as much oil down low on the cranks as much as possible (huge main and rod bearing diameters) and valve train durability suffered as they addressed the oil problems. 455 didn't experience that as it wouldn't run much above 6k.

65 425's (A blocks), had a 45 degree lifter bank angle with the standard .842 dia lifters, and crappy valve hold downs and pivots. In 66 they went to the B block with a .921 dia. lifter, 39 degree bank angle, and much cleaner and better valves and rocker arrangements. That carried through 67 into the 455's in 1968, but they went back to the standard .842 lifters in 68 also. All 455's are 39 degree bank angles with .842 lifters.

Both the 425 and 455's had big intake valves (2.07) and small intake valve (2.00). Toronados got the 2.07's. Both had 1.62 dia exhaust valves.

The 400's in the 442's were derivatives of these engines but with smaller bores. The 65-67 (E blocks)were almost perfectly square at 3.99 x 4.00, but the 68 and 69 (G blocks) had to go way down to a 3.875 bore with the 4.25 stroke to stay at 400 (GM edict back then). The 65-67 400 used the same sand core for the water jackets as the 425, so could easily be bored out to 4.125 (or even 4.250) whereas the 68/69 400's had a unique sand core and was a thin wall casting. Couldn't go much bigger than 60 over without danger. They weren't that great of a performance engine, but great for cruisers and Vista Cruisers.

So to answer your question, I'd go with the 455. Much more plentiful, more bang for the buck. Can keep compression down, and use moderate gearing. You'll have to go way up in compression and gearing to make the 350 come alive. I run a 4.56 and Casey runs a 4.33. Both are very high compression engines.

If you're into Pure Stock or FAST racing, the only combination for a 68 with the 455 would be a Hurst (silver/black) and the 350 would have to be a Ramrod W31.

I'm doing a 68 W30 with a 67 short stroke 400 right now. Won't be able to run either PS or FAST, but may be OK in the new Factory Appearing Class at NSCA. Engine ran 11.60's all day in Chris Hemminger's 71 Cutlass Supreme. Has a Hurst type treastment in red and black.

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Dave,

Thanks for the lesson! I have watched ROP for over 3 years and did not get as much out of them as I did in reading your segment. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif I would have had to sort out too much BS and bickering! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Thanks, Rusty. Seems to be a lot of new "experts" over there now, too bad, that was a great site until recently.

We'll be looking for you this year with a pair of nasty W31's. We love Big blocks for snacks. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif As long as someone doesn't hide my pants again.................... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/blush.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

[ QUOTE ]
We love Big blocks for snacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bring it. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

btw-That Pure Stock article listed Casey's car as having 4.66's. Typo or did he change em?

That car really impresses me. As does Detweiler's.

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Hey Dave,

If the world spins in the right direction, I will plan on making my way to Stanton again! I was really hoping to get a chance to whoop up on you with the "old" motor, now I just have to pray that you will blow through the clutch or the tires! So far, in my memories of PS racing, the two most anticipated races were 1) Martin '03 when Rob was racing your car (too bad I came off the line sideways and I had to petal like John Force) and 2) when I raced the '69 H/O advisor at Stanton last year-difference at the finish=.001! Better get your game face on! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nice Car!
I would enjoy seeing more of it at any scheduled shows you plan on attending this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

W30's are some bad looking bastages, eh? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

I hope to make the the BOP race at Da Grove on June 5 th, and the FAST race on June 17th, but that all depends on work.

It isn't a show car, but I do have fun with it.

Going in the rotisserie this winter if things work out.

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

All right, I'm not going to miss it this year. I bought plane tickets and a room at the Holiday Inn last night. (For all of you Washington board members, I got nonstop flights from Seattle and 3 nights at the Holiday Inn Collinsville for less than $500 total via Travelocity online! You guys are going to have to come up with other excuses now....) I just need to secure my place at the banquet and I'm all set.

I'm trying to decide if I need a rental car or not. I think I should be able to shuttle/cab/bum rides enough to get me through the weekend. Opinions welcomed (unless its "you seem like too much of an arrogant bastard to ride with any of us", just paraphrase that into "you might like the convenience of a rental car").

Hope to meet many of you in person, and see some great racing and great cars.

TOM BRESKE https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Ok guys, Darren twisted my arm hard enough, so I will be seeing all of you guys at SCR8 in September. Looking forward to it! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Shhh. It'll be a good laugh. I told him the dates were changed. He'll be showing up for the International Gem & Jewelry Show, Inc.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

[ QUOTE ]
Shhh. It'll be a good laugh. I told him the dates were changed. He'll be showing up for the International Gem & Jewelry Show, Inc.



[/ QUOTE ] https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

How's the Camaro coming, Darren?

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Awesome artwork for the event. who is responsible??

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Only 164 days til "CampYaGotaGo!" http://www.wdisneyw.com/forums/image...04/excited.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

[ QUOTE ]
Awesome artwork for the event. who is responsible??

[/ QUOTE ]
We have a place in Rolla, MO, that has done our t-shirts since SCR1...they get the credit for the artwork each year.

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Rick you need help!!!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

I'm ready to take on those stinkin Deuces...

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

The money shot....

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Hey did you consult with GM before you put that ZL 1 sticker on it ?

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

I can see it now, they will ask for a HUGE users fee!!!

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Hey Charley,

It that a C.O.S.O (Central Office Sweeper Order)?

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/130294-P1010002.JPG

I think that it needs some purple flames like your rod has...

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

What Charley does while we are all sleeping.
Can piped in Organ Music in his new bldg. be far behind?
http://www.sealetter.com/artwork/voyice.jpg

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Hey, who's that riding "shotgun"????

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Wonder if Charley would let me drive that Z-L1? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Hmm, Ford blue floors. Do you have a Mustang door mat to wipe your feet on too?
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/burnout.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif
-Sam

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Bob McClury has just told me about the reunion. I raced with dick harrell when we lived in Carlsbad and know a lot of the dark secrets. I still have my old '66 funny car, the one called Sump-in-else and bob suggested I bring it to the reunion. Maybe some of the old timers will remember me. Grady Bryant.

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

You would be most Welcomed if you were to attend this labor day weekend.
And your 66 Funny Car would be the icing on the cake. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/cool.gif
Can you share any pictures or stories of it with us?

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

bob has done several articles about the car. If you would read my book, match race madness, you could see pictures of the car and the ones dicky and I had in Carlsbad before we both moved.

grady bryant

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Grady, welcome to this site, I have your book, and it is a good read. Do bring your car this year, fire it up, and come to the track!

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

<font color="red"> PLAN ON ATTENDING, I OWN AND I AM CURRENTLY RESTORING AND PLAN ON BRINGING A 69 HUGGER ORANGE CANADIAN C O P O.

DAVID A WHITFIELD </font>

Re: Supercar Reunion #8
 

Have any more cars to add to the list? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/worship.gif