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Re: RAIV and RAV more continuation....
Think of that next time you are being anal at a show that your Endura is not perfectly aligned !!!
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[ QUOTE ]
Think of that next time you are being anal at a show that your Endura is not perfectly aligned !!! [/ QUOTE ] Andrew Dice Clay would'nt touch that line. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif |
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Re: RAIV and RAV more continuation....
Wow. Keep em coming. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif
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[ QUOTE ]
Ready for Carl to jump in and tear off for plam16? Ready for me to get it, yes. They also had an area in the plant near the end of the line where there were huge rotating drums buried into the floor, and they would pull the cars on there, and they had gauges that set up in front. You could sit in the driver's seat and completely simulate highway use. It would set right there locked into one spot. Them guys would run them cars through the gears. There was a speedometer display, and they'd run it up to sixty and back down to zero. If you got on it the tires squealed just like they did on the road. If you hit the brakes they squealed like they did on the road. But the only thing that was moving was the back wheels. They did this to every vehicle that come out of plant 8. They would fill them full of antifreeze, put three gallons of gas into 'em, and they went about thirty feet and were started. There were four guys there, and they all had a spot and they would shuttle them and drop it off in the right spot and the guy would get in that car, fire it up. Amazingly, it would start fast. That wasn’t the first time that the engine had been fired up? Nope. That engine had been run over in plant 9. It had been run without a carburetor on it. They had a hose with an air-natural gas mixture that clamped down onto the intake, and the engine would run just as if it had a carburetor. J They could push buttons and rev f these motors up and run 'em at a certain rpm. After they got done they'd pull the hoses off the water connections, disconnect the t plate from the intake and send it t on its way. I had a lot of motors come up into plant 8 on the second floor, on the motor bridge, 1 warm from where they'd been running and did not have a carburetor on them. [/ QUOTE ] |
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Re: RAIV and RAV more continuation....
This is really good stuff Steved.
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Anybody have pictures of the Norwood plant like Steved has of Pontiac? Sam https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif
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That's funny Sam I was thinking the same thing. Guess we would have seen already if there were.
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I may have found a Norwood pict.
This will have to suffice for now. I believe it is either Flint,Mi. or Baltimore,Md. plant. 1970 https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/smile.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...mbly20line.jpg |
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Damn pack rat. Dig out some more!!!
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At least you didn't call Mr.70 a sausage.
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I think Belair has that copyrighted. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/grin.gif
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I meant post this yesterday instead of the double post of the pic before.
http://www.empgmc.com/race/plant04t.jpg Full Size |
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Steved,
-------Love these assembly line pics. I keep thinking the next one will have my 64 Grand Prix 421HO/4speed in it. Im keeping my fingers crossed!!!!...........Bill S |
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Sorry, I was swamped today and didn't get time to do more. I don't have many more pics with the cars in them, and too bad they aren't as good a the color pic posted with the Monte's.
http://www.empgmc.com/race/plant05t.jpg Full Size |
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Too cool...8 lugger comin down the line !
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Steve,
I spoke with Milt Schornack at length about the RAV last night. He was stuck @ home with the flu, so he was a captive audience. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif Here what I gathered, and this is MY opinion and not necessarily Milt's. Also remember that this is from Milt's memory - nothing recorded from the factory - and my OWN interpretations. There were a number of RAV/tunnel port rams built in early 1969. Milt believes the numbers were in the dozens. However, because the project was cancelled, Milt relayed that he was involved in the actual scrapping of tunnel port ram heads and intakes -- into a Royal Pontiac dumpster!!! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif Now, Mr. Wangers has "made reference to"- but has not readily admitted to any RAV cars going over to Knafel, (this fact is from you, not him) and I think he knows the answer to this, but why would he keep it a secret? Schornack claims that because Bill Knafel was close friends with DeLorean that it is probably more than likely that Knafel got his mitts on several (if not more) RAV engines and components, however, Milt adamently denies that Knafel could have received a factory RAV car. If Wangers and Schornack couldn't get a hold of a factory RAV car, how could Knafel? Friends or not, (DeLorean/Knafel) I would be willing to bet my "left one" that Wangers had just as much "pull" with Johnny D. as Knafel did when I came to getting cars out of engineering. In fact, you will see that Wangers pulled a TON of cars off the line @ PMD in the 6-7 years that I cover in my Schornack/Royal book. Today I plan to give Dave Warren a ring again. While Dave will be just another opinion from Royal Pontiac, I think he will have an opinion and some memories of this as well. I already have a major surprise in the book about the RAV test cars, and I hope to find more. But since the book is about Schornack and Royal, I don't plan to delve into that whole Knafel scene - save for the 1/4-mile strip competition between Knafel and Royal. (They were the automotive equivalent of Sox vs. Yanks!) https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif But I do plan to publish opinions from the Royal side concerning the RAV. I met Jim Wangers in Pontiac this past summer and he was very nice to me, however I doubt he would help me out with any info concerning RAV lore, as this is a Schornack tome, and unfortunately the two men have not exactly been "buddies" for the past 35 years. Steve, I applaud your continued persistence and resolve in finding the truth about RAV cars, and while I hope someday you'll prove everybody wrong, for now I'm staying with the standard belief that only the engines got out of PMD. .... can you imagine throwing away RAV intakes and heads?????? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/frown.gif Mac |
Re: RAIV and RAV more continuation....
Personally I would think that Knafel got as much or more from Pontiac since they were both racing Dealers...especially if he was buds with John D...JMO...
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I know without a doubt Mr. Wangers was right in the middle of all that went down, and that he knows much more about several things than he has told to date. Publicly anyway.
There will probably never be paper documentation on the two Knafel cars in question, either if the went to engineering or what happened there. But you never know. I would very much like for Mr. Schorr to expound on his accounting of Milford, I sure hope some one that has access to him will point some questions about it. I would think his remarks on Milford have some profound implications. At least people are thinking and looking now, right? Steve |
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really dont know why they would have"trashed" them in 69 or 70 as they were avail.over the counter to more than factory guys.They made a lot of 400 crate motors.I could understand it if there was stuff laying around in the late 70s when the parts would have droped off the catalog.You HAVE to remember that the guys that were involved in these projects are very old now(damn im old)and most of them are now ledgends in their OWN minds.I know a couple of the old pontiac racers that have been telling so many lies for so long they believe them.Tom
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Tom I STILL can't find that HPP, what gives? My subscription isn't here, there are dozens of the last addition on the stand yet Gary got his. Whats up?
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/confused.gif |
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no clue!Maybe just pay the bill!LOL
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Well my gas got shut off, but please not my HPP!!!
Tom you ever see this, wonder if the article is any good? http://i12.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/09/71/f7_1_b.JPG Another plant pic: http://www.azalea.net/~steved/dropt.jpg Full Size |
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no not that one.
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[ QUOTE ]
How did the Ram Air cars run? Ram Air cars? I don't remember driving Ram Air cars in '66 in the plant. I know that they had 'em, I don't remember driving 'em. I don't even remember seeing them pans on them cars. If they put them on, it was in plant 16 or someplace that I didn't see them. I don't remember a ram air car in , 67 either. I remember people talking about them. Something special on this car. I remember , 69, which was the first year they had the little hood flutters that worked. That was the first year I remember seeing something un*der the hood. At that time our opinion in the plant was that this is just something to attract the attention of the people. It gives the car fresh air, it doesn't force air in, it doesn't do anything, it just opens it up so it gets more air. The people in the plant, as an overall opinion, weren't im*pressed with this. At that time I wasn't too much impressed with what I called "round-body" cars, the '68 and 69's, I had already gotten rid of my GTOs. I was a family man by now, but I still loved to drive 'em down there. The Ram Air IV cars in '69*every now and then you'd see the lettering on the hood that said "RAM AIR IV"- these cars hauled butt. I know that. They were fast. [/ QUOTE ] |
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Re: RAIV and RAV more continuation....
Steve, that Drag Racing Magazine is the issue that I posted photos from (a few pages back now) of the 69 RAV Firebird.
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Really! I have to get it.
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[ QUOTE ]
You HAVE to remember that the guys that were involved in these projects are very old now(damn im old)and most of them are now legends in their OWN minds.I know a couple of the old pontiac racers that have been telling so many lies for so long they believe them.Tom [/ QUOTE ] Tom, do you think this applies to the guy that claims his 65 GTO was built as a factory lightweight (the two part story in HPP a while back)? The article was fascinating, but the guy's story had more holes in it than the body of 75 Vega, driven daily, in Chicago. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...s/rolleyes.gif |
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Mike
I have asked around about that 65 with the GM people I have talked to and no one has yet to deny or collaborate the story. I would say it's possible with cautious optimsim, and that the story is a little off from time. |
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And I think one of his friends was on Classical Pontiac talking about it back when it came out, I don't remember what was said, but may be worth going to look at.
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Steve,Ihave been told that the steel that was used on a new stamping was ligher metal.After it was determined the deal was correct they used reg. sheet metal.Would have been no problem to set that stuff aside and put on special cars.I was told by someone that I know and respect and is not "that" old that he actually got one.He told me ther were 5-6 cars made with it.I dont think anyone can actually doc.it.Real easy way to check these days is to sonic the metal.Tom
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I have just been chastised for saying that the old racers told lies,I guess the correct term should have been"stories".Tom
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See Tom, "lies" is a term the older generations used. The new mordern approach in our day of politically pre spin controled enviroment is "stories". Since you figured it out there is some depth to the old saying, "you can teach and ole dog a new trick"
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif I have no doubt what you say probably and did happen, and I bet it's not on a PHS. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif When questoning people in the RAV research I would also ask if they had read the article on the 65 and could actually remember the guy or car. Just as no one at GM remembers anything about the RAV, they didn't remember the 65 either. Go figure. |
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Steve:
Not to jump the subject, but I should have asked you something when you asked me about the Magnum's. Did you ever do any research into some of the lesser known Tin Indian's? I been trying to find a picture or info on his 68 GTO. I know it set a D/S record, but not much else. I asked Bill K. a few years ago at the Tri-power Nationals, but he could not remember much specific. Thanks - Brian |
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Brian
I believe I have seen a pic of it one time but do not remember where, if I find it I will pass it on to here. Here is what I found a while back as for the record: [ QUOTE ] 1968 GTO Ram Air II 400 "Doc" Dixon Tin Indian Set AHRA D/S World Record [/ QUOTE ] |
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