Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

I think that only applies to leaf spring cars.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

But you're still adding a second point of rotation to the suspension. You've got the point where the upper and lower control arms would intersect if they were longer, and you've got the front mount of the ladder bars. At best, it will bind, and at worst it will break something.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

I have saw those Ladder-Bars work on hard race cars with no breakage,did see axles and spider gears break. Yes it will bind.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

Back in the day before anyone really knew the factory 4 link could work if set up right, the NMW ladder bars were usually put on these cars as the only drag racing traction device available (besides air bags or the no hop bars). My red 70 was drag raced alot with ladder bars and 2 pieces of the frame were pulled out on each side right where the front brackets bolted up. No doubt due to the conflicting angles as explained, or possibly the bolts just loosened up over time and whala. But with that said, the car did hook with a 4 speed and alot of abuse (and broken parts). The ladder bars were welded to the axle tubes as well to keep things from rotating. My friends 70 chevelle convertible also had the same setup and was launched at 6000 rpms with a stick shift alot of times as a dedicated race car, also took its toll on the chassis. But since were reliving those times as Day 2 cars, ladder bars just have to be on them again! I would think the limited use most of our cars see today, unless we are drag racing with stick shifts, frame damage is unlikely to happen.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

This car is a 4 speed and the ladders wrecked the frame, cracked on both sides. It saw a lot of drag strip action however. Ive removed all the speed parts to restore the car. Reverse Day 2 I guess.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...e/DSC08467.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...e/DSC_0926.jpg

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

This shows how little these companies and racers, (at that time), understood instant centers and
the way the suspensions where designed to work. Had anyone had the foresight to market
tubular, rear control arms with rod ends, they could made a ton of money after they proved
how well they worked.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glenn70</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But since were reliving those times as Day 2 cars, ladder bars just have to be on them again! I would think the limited use most of our cars see today, unless we are drag racing with stick shifts, frame damage is unlikely to happen.</div></div> I agree that ladder bars definitely look cool and are part of the whole Day 2 thing that we love, but I wonder if there's a more clever way to install them so that you don't have two competing instant centers. Maybe just leave out the front bolt where the ladder bar pivots?

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

Possibly if you left out the factory lower control arms and made the ladder bars the new low control arms it might work but I wouldnt be brave enough to try it. You'd probly need a diagonal cross bar similar to a real ladder bar race car and a better front bar crossmember.
BTW since a day 2 nova would have traction devices are you running slapper bars on yours? Nothin like a set of lakewoods peeking out from under the car to inspier day2 woosiness, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

The upper control arms hold the rearend from moving side to side.
As long as the front bolt hole on the ladder bars are at the same height as the lower control arm mounting point, and the ladder bars are at the same angle, the instant center wouldn't change enough to fool with it.
Whenever I get around to installing the NMW ladder bars on my Chevelle, I will not bolt them down hard to the axle tubes and will weld a stop onto each side of the bars to keep them from walking side to side.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glenn70</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW since a day 2 nova would have traction devices are you running slapper bars on yours? Nothin like a set of lakewoods peeking out from under the car to inspier day2 woosiness, [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/crazy.gif[/img] </div></div> Yes, but right now I have the incorrect current Lakewood design that uses 1.5&quot; x 2.5&quot; rectangular tubing. This winter I'll be building a set of the 2.5&quot; square design with J-bolts (many thanks to copo69's friend Warren for the measurements), and they'll actually contact the front spring eye like slapper bars should.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

I think they{long and hit spring eye bolt} started about 1970 those particular ones came out. I like making long homemade ones before the year 1970,so go for it.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

Love dem slapper bars

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...RBARCAMARO.png[/img]

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

many fast coil spring cars in those days used air bags and not always ladder bars. The control arm bushings were usually replaced with the solid versions. I think Moroso and Lakewood carried them.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

I don't think coil spring cars would tell or show all what they did for &quot;Traction&quot;,there magic fix. One coil spring car we ran,with good traction, we found it took the drivers side moter mount frame out. This is back in the day.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

Interesting trick. So, in theory it would momentarily heft a portion of the car's weight to the passenger side of the car (am assuming some sort of engine limiting strap [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img] ?). Bet the frame really twisted on the launch (w/o a roll bar). I suppose in effect you would have a net loading of the right/rear tire which might help the launch. So, did it help Paul?

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

I think the launch took out the frame mount, as on cracked or broke.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

It was pulling up Sam{all the time you are on it}. The net loading of the right/rear tire is up off the ground. Because of the drive shaft rotation{or engine rotation}. Not to get too long a front and rear engine plates would help{called motor plates}. Hope that helps Sam,if not pm me your phone number.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

I see now. Thanks!

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

Imagine twisting a rag in your hands. The engine is twisting in one direction while the rearend is twisting in the opposite direction. Pass. side air bag helps to keep that side of the rearend from climbing up into the car. Roll cages, boxing the inside of the frame helps control the torsional twist as well.
Here is a good video showing the twisting motion:

http://www.streetfire.net/video/drag...la_1998857.htm

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glenn70</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets try again....
http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...IMG_1184-1.jpg[/img]
</div></div>

Hi Glenn.
Can you give me some info on your wheel and tire combo, please?
Car looks great and I'm looking for a similar wheel and tire package for my Chevelle.

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

Hi Damien
The fronts are 15x4, tires are Moroso drag 710/15
The rears are 15x8, tires are M&amp;H Musclecar street/strip 275/60/15

The morosos are not very street friendly, very thin sidewalls and lightweight. You would be better with a dot tire for safety. The rear tires are ok as long as you are not driving in wet weather, tread is shallow and thin. Basically this car is driven short distances in sunny weather!

Re: Addicted to day 2, chevelle transformation help?
 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Glenn70</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Damien
The fronts are 15x4, tires are Moroso drag 710/15
The rears are 15x8, tires are M&amp;H Musclecar street/strip 275/60/15

The morosos are not very street friendly, very thin sidewalls and lightweight. You would be better with a dot tire for safety. The rear tires are ok as long as you are not driving in wet weather, tread is shallow and thin. Basically this car is driven short distances in sunny weather! </div></div>

Thanks Glenn. I am tossing up which way to go as I plan on driving my '69 regularly, although not in the rain. I will definately have a look at the M&amp;H's, though.