Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

I agree totally, the car looks great in the pics, that's why I bought it. The pics just don't show any of the problems, unfortunately. And yes, in hindsight, an inspection would have been a good plan. Seller told me that an extensive inspection was done and ( don't remember the exact wording he used)but no issues were found. I guess it depends on who inspects it, as learned in other posts.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase

Not that it helps you in any way now but if that's the place I think it is (seller) it's only about ten miles from me. I stopped there a few years ago and the cars in stock were pretty rough. Let's just say the description didn't line up with the actual condition in my opinion. This car does look really good in the pictures. The seller did a fair job of describing it and even stated an inspection was advised. It's all subjective and you were hoping for the best possible condition and got way less. He obviously tried to make it sound as attractive as possible. Bottom line is don't buy a car without looking at it yourself or having a trusted person do it for you especially when you're laying out that kind of cash. If it does have all the original major components you probably paid too much but might want to give it some time, cool off about it and then start making it the car you had hoped it would be. They are only going up in value and you should break even or come out ahead at some point down the road. You'd probably lose about $10K unloading it now. You may be able to sort it out for that.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Thats what I like about this site, lots of differing opinions to make an informed decision. Sounds like very good advice. Cool off before making any rash, emotional decisions. Thanks.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Gordon I think you paid a little too much for the car you are describing but it is Done, Put together a list of
problems And hope that it does not need a lot of parts$$. If it is mostly time and things you can do yourself
I think you will be OK, The car is going to increase in value as long as you own it and you will not get hurt
When you sell it in the future. A numbers Matching #1 condition 70 Z/28 with that color combination for 40
would have been a steal in today’s market. If you are not very mechanically gifted and just plain don’t like
to work on your cars I would just drive it or sell it. If you do enjoy getting dirty once in a while; Get to work.
That will be one Seriously Kool Car that will be worth much more then what you paid for it when you are
finished. If you are Dead Set on selling the car email me,

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Grusum, I know that this won't make you feel any better but I did the same thing a couple of years ago. I purchased a 68 Camaro from someone in Utah. Not only did the pictures make it look great, he sent me a video of the car including the sound of it running. After receiving the Camaro, it was obvious that his idea of a perfect interior and mine were different. They were things that could be fixed but I felt it was misrepresented. It was a two speed racing powerglide which didn't have a first gear. He refuted the claim. He said it was working ok before it was shipped. What I learned after this experiance is I would wait as long as it took to find one locally, which I did. My wife and family (all grown children) thought that the car was really nice and that I was nuts. Maybe I was a little picky but I sold the car 2 weeks later taking a $4000 loss including the price of shipping. I eventually found one that I was happy with and look back at my internet buy as a learning experiance. Good luck to you.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Don't get me wrong, I was'nt expecting a concours show winner. For the money, I was expecting an older nicely retored driver that had most all the things it should have. I 'm not interested in having a trailer queen now or in the future. I was expecting a driver that I could tinker with over the next few years, but still have it show well in the meantime. Already had a list to address some of the things like air cleaner, fan shroud, dash fitment, rear bumper guards, etc. Was looking forward to it immensely. What I got is a car in need of alot of work to just make the doors close properly, needs paint job(looks good in pictures, but some very questionable work was done). Makes me shudder to think what I'd find if I did decide to dig a little deeper. I'm not exagerating, the way things were done it was obvious someone slapped some shoddy work on it just to flip it. I don't think it was the guy I bought it off of either, he was probably glad to get rid of it while it still looked good. Having it go over 2500 miles away probably didn't hurt either. There may still be some issues whether it's also a true Z or not. More to come later on that

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

If I could get out of this by only losing 4-5K I'd be ecstatic. Lesson learned........could get onto finding the car I want, with alot more knowledge and understanding that there are people out there who aren't on the up and up. Call me a trusting, good natured small town boy, but I guess that's what I am.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

The seller is on the other end of the state from me...I've talked to him and his son a couple times. I've also looked at some of their stuff at Carlisle. I've seen some nice stuff and some not so nice. I've never seen anything that wasn't pretty close to the way they called it but even with that said...and with apology's to all car dealers out there, [and I'm one of 'em] These guys survive on the bigger 'fool' theory..[no insult intended, we've ALL been there]

That whole auction was a series of disclaimers and red flags....Yeah it was detailed nicely but the quality or lack thereof was there to be seen...if only one would look.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Yeah, I know what you I mean. I guess I was way too over anxious, I thought the red flags thet were being thrown up in the description only made it more legit. He put it right out there , meaning (to me anyways) that it would stand up to scrutiny, if you know what I mean. I'd just had too many other cars eluding me by the smallest of margins (missed my dream car by about 12 hrs.)

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

AFTER FOLLOWING THE PREVIOUS 5 PAGES OF THIS THREAD, I CAN APRRECIATE EVERYONES INPUT WEATHER IT IS GOOD OR BAD. I'VE READ THE AUCTION DESCRIPTION NUMEROUS TIMES AND THE SELLER MADE NO CLAIMS THAT THIS WAS A SHOW CAR OR #1 CAR. I DONT SEE ANYWHERE IN THIS AD THAT ANYONE COULD FORM THE OPINION THAT IT WAS. GRUSUM, YOU BOUGHT A REAL DAYTONA YELLOW / HOUNDSTOOTH 70 RS Z/28, IF THIS WAS A #1 CAR I WOULD BE EXPECTING TO PAY NORTH OF $50K +. SOUNDS TO ME THAT ANY IMPROVEMENTS YOU MAKE TO THIS CAR WILL ESCALATE THE QUALITY AND VALUE OF THE CAR. JUST MY .02 CENTS.... KP

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Believe me Kenny this is no #1 car nor was I expecting it to be. For the price and amount of interest in the car, I just expected not to find some of the things I did. Just plain shoddy workmanship, just obvious lack of attention as to how things were assembled, etc. The drivers door won't close with the window up, new weathersripping improperly installed, poor fit on the bumpers, non working radio, floppy side window, floppy dash. I could go on and on. I expected to touch this baby up for the price I paid, not have to strip her down and start from scratch. If this is what I'm finding now I can't imagine what'll be found a little deeper. The blatant lack of concern for these cheap simple little things leads me to believe it's probably more sinister the further you delve into it.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

All this speculation is also assuming that it is a true Z. The jury is still out on this one. If its not even really a Z then I feel it's a case of fraud. If it turns out not to be a Z then we're looking at a very mediocre 18-20K car. I'm working on verifying this. What do you guys think.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

As bad as the resto and engine stamping is I doubt if the guy faking the Z would know to mount the gas pedal on the floor.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Thats the frustrating part. Why would they waste the time and effort to do just a half-a$$ed car. When alot of the things are right, why cheap out on the easiest things to fix. If he went to the trouble to re-stamp it why not at least do it right, or even half right on some other things( not hard to do at the time, but a big undertaking now ) . More investigation soon to come most notably in the rear sway bar mount. I'll let you know.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Well I've just recieved a PM from the seller who has taken my 'bigger fool' comment as an insult. He tells me he wants to meet up with me at Carlisle.
Well first off, I was more or less defending the seller or at least so I thought, my comment was aimed at most car dealers in general which BTW I am a car dealer too so I guess I'm allowed the swipe...

Funny how the seller found time to comment to me in a PM but hasn't had the balls to comment in this thread...yet.

It really is a funny world. I should have kept my mouth shut.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

It was actually a pretty honest post Jim...who was the seller here ??? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

YES, MAYBE YOU SHOULD, I DONT NEED ANY HELP DEFENDING MYSELF. AS FAR AS BALLS GO, I HAVE SPOKEN TO GORD ON FRIDAY, HE OUTLINED HIS CONCERNS, WE HAD A FRIENDLY CONVERSATION, HE WENT ON TO SAY HE TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR WAIVING HIS RIGHT TO A PERSONAL OR 3RD PARTY INSPECTION.AND DOES NOT PUT ANY BLAME FOR HIS DISAPPOINTMENT ON ME. IF YOU CANT READ OR CHOOSE NOT TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE TERMS OUTLINED IN THE AD FOR THIS CAR THEN AT LEAST UNDERSTAND THIS BUYER WAS GIVEN EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SURE THIS CAR WAS RIGHT FOR HIM.

GORD, IM NOT SURE WHO YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU SAID "Why would they waste the time and effort to do just a half-a$$ed car" AND "If he went to the trouble to re-stamp it " WHO ARE YOU RE FURRING TO?

ALSO I TOLD YOU ON FRIDAY WHEN YOU CALLED THAT A GENTLEMAN FROM GEORGIA CALLED ME MANY TIMES AFTER YOU COMPLETED THE PURCHASE OF THE CAR. HE WANTED THE CAR IF YOU DIDNT COME THROUGH. ALSO ON FRIDAY I INFORMED YOU AN INSPECTION WAS DONE FOR THE BUYER OF THE FIRST AUCTION BUT I WAS NOT GIVEN THE REPORT SINCE I WAS NOT THE CUSTOMER.

I DONT PLAN ON RESPONDING TO EVERY COMMENT MADE ON THIS THREAD. MY AD WAS VERY CLEAR, I WANTED THE BUYER TO EVALUATE AND DECIDE BY MEANS OF INSPECTION WHAT THE CAR IS WORTH TO HIM, THE CAR WAS ADVERTISED AS A DRIVER,

GORD YOU WROTE "He put it right out there , meaning (to me anyways) that it would stand up to scrutiny"

"THIS 70 Z/28 HAS JUST COME OUT OF MANY YEARS OF STORAGE, IT WAS RESTORED SOME TIME AGO, THE CAR IS NOT A TOP SHOW CAR, BUT IS A DRIVER / LOCAL CRUISER. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR FROM THE START,
I WILL DESCRIBE THIS CAR WITHOUT TYPING FOR DAYS AND WOULD LIKE A PROSPECTIVE BUYER TO INSPECT OR HIRE AN INSPECTION COMPANY TO EVALUATE THIS CAR PRIOR TO BIDDING. """

WHAT PART OF THIS STATEMENT IMPLIES THE CAR CAN STAND UP TO SCRUTINY ??

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SAY THAT WHAT A CAR IS WORTH DIFFERS FROM ONE BUYER TO ANOTHER, IF A GUY HAD ONE AS A FIRST CAR OR GOT MARRIED IN A PARTICULAR CAR HE MAY PAY WAY MORE THAN WE THINK ITS WORTH. SM

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Scott, The "people" I am referring to are the people who actually did the work to the car, whomever they may be. I don't think that you had the car long enough to do much more than detailing and preparing it for re-sale.

By openly offering for people to have the car independantly inspected, as well as bringing attention to the trim tag, that only more reinforced to me that the car was legit. It's like War or Poker: Showing Weakness=Strength
Showing Strength=Weakness
If you offer something like that, it meant to me that it would obviously pass the test or why else would you bring it up. Hope this clears it up for you. By the way I'm still hoping you can find me that guy who wants the car so bad.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

HEY Scott, better yet, take the car back! I'll ship it, and I'll eat all of my expenses thus far,and we'll all chalk it up to a learning experience.
That is if you are confident you could sell it , you obviously have better contacts and resources than I do.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

As someone who flew all over the USA ,and Canada for that matter, to look for a 70Z28, I can understand you being frustrated here. I spoke with many people and got many pictures of cars and flew out on "trust me you see it you'll buy it" only to see real junk when I arrived there. Pictures only show so much as we see here. I think the car is a real Z28 and it is a shame what happened here. But when spending all the money for these cars you have to go look, in the long run its cheaper. If you can get past your first feelings about the car and have the time and funds to fix it-it can turn out to be a real nice car. Good luck in what ever you chose.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

[ QUOTE ]
HEY Scott, better yet, take the car back! I'll ship it, and I'll eat all of my expenses thus far,and we'll all chalk it up to a learning experience.
That is if you are confident you could sell it , you obviously have better contacts and resources than I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds fair, especially seeing he has a buyer in Georgia...... Sorry about your luck......

Could you tell us more on the issue with being a "real Z" or not??????

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Coming soon,....... I just got off a stretch of 12hr night shifts, and need to get some Z's (NO PUN INTENDED!) Plus the weather here seems to be crapping out on us lately and I don't have any heat in my garage. Stay tuned folks....

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Gord, if the door weatherstrips are new then the doors will not shut easily with the windows up. I replaced mine in '85 with new GM strips and they are still tight even after adjusting the glass fuzzies etc.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Yes they are new.....or reasonably so.....but not even close to being installed correctly. That's my point a complete half a$$ed effort everywhere you look. Have to slam dr. door and when you do the glass slips up over the drip rail molding. It's just easier to leave the window down a bit, even then you have to give er a good shove. By comparison though the pass. door is almost a perfect fit. Still bugs the hell out of me though that they didn't put all the fasteners on the door trim. Also didn't remove the stainless door edge trim before over-painting the doors. Window flops around like a fish, at least 3in of flop.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

69Hurst...Thanks for responding. I think most of us here think your auction did a decent job of making it clear that this was no show car. But in your auction you also stated "ORIGINAL MATCHING ENGINE" . From the engine pad pic posted earlier in this thread it is obvious that someone other than GM stamped that vin on the engine pad. That does have a effect on the value of this car. Maybe you could refund him something in consideration of the engine being wrong.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

CHARLIE, DID YOU READ THE LINE THAT SAID ?

"IT WILL BE UP TO THE BUYER TO EVALUATE AND DECIDE IF THIS CAR IS AS AUTHENTIC AS WE THINK IT IS"... ALSO WERE YOU IN THE NORWOOD PLANT IN MAY OF 1970? I DIDNT THINK SO,,, I PUT UP GREAT PICS OF THE TRIM TAG AND BLOCK STAMP, NOT TO MENTION A PIC OF THE TRANS, THE TRANS HAS THE VIN AND DATE OF 5/06, THE ENGINE STAMP HAS 5/09, CHARLIE YOU CANT DETERMINE WHEN THE VIN WAS STAMPED ON THIS PAD, I BELIEVE THE ENGINE WAS BORN IN THIS CAR. THAT IS MY OPINION, I ALSO WASNT IN NORWOOD IN 1970. I MADE IT CLEAR THAT A PROSPECTIVE BUY WILL HAVE TO DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES. I LIKE HOW YOU DETERMINE THAT I OWE A REFUND. ALL $'S ARE BETWEEN GORD AND I, NOT YENKO.COM AND I. KNOWONE PUT A GUN TO THIS GUYS HEAD, HE CALLED US AND MADE A GOOD OFFER. HE HAD 7 DAYS OF AUCTION TO HIRE AN INSPECTION COMPANY OR FIND SOMEONE OR FLY IN TO BOSTON HIMSELF. HE DESIDED TO FORWARD A DEPOSIT AND HAVE ME END THE AUCTION EARLY. SM



CHARLIE, DID YOU READ THE LINE THAT SAID ?

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

BUY THE WAY CHARLY, HOWS YOUR RESTAMPED L89?

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Still restamped and I got about the same lame answer you gave. Do us all a favor and press the CAPS LOCK button on your keyboard.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

IM SURE YOU INSPECTED A CAR THAT MAGNITUDE PRIOR TO PURCHASE RIGHT? CANT SEEM TO FIND THAT BUTTON YOUR TALKING ABOUT.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Nope... I went on the dealers word. I buy many cars sight unseen based upon someones word. I try to deal with people that stand behind what they sell and it usually works out great. As I recall, the vin on the Z28 in question is supposed to be down by the oil filter. Maybe Grusum can now check down there for a vin.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

YOU MAY ALSO RECALL THAT A FEW MEMBERS THAT HAVE 70 Z'S HAVE THE VIN ON TOP, OTHERS HAVE THE VIN DOWN LOW, THEY WENT BOTH WAYS. SM

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

[ QUOTE ]
... ALSO WERE YOU IN THE NORWOOD PLANT IN MAY OF 1970? I DIDNT THINK SO,,,

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, Charlie wasn't at Norwood back then. But what's great is we've got some members here who worked for GM back in the day and who have been able to tell us about the VIN-stamping process. And from what we've learned the stamping on that Z doesn't pass muster. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Putting all the stuff in the add about have it inspected, etc. does not release your liability for representing the car. If you state facts about the car, they are your facts and that is the problem. If you state original engine then if it's not, you are responsible. If you said it might be then that is another story. Make the new owner a concession of some bucks and both learn and move on, IMO. Credibility matters most, can't get it back when gone. Do the right thing, trust me if these guys say the stamp is bogus it is.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

https://www.yenko.net/attachments/108887-capslock.JPG

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

The VIN stamping on that motor appears suspect based on other known originals. From what I can see of the engine code it looks OK? The date is also in line with other dates. There is glare in the picture so it's hard to tell. I can say my May 1970 Norwood Camaro, although a big block and not a Z, has the VIN down by the oil filter and not on the pad.

Here's a theory - You can prove it if you find the VIN by the oil filter. Who ever did the shabby resto didn't really know what was right. They thought they had an unstamped motor and stamped the VIN on the pad because they heard that's how it was supposed to be. If that proves to be true you have a restamped original engine. How strange would that be? If there is no VIN by the oil filter or another VIN... well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what you find.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

YOU OBVIOUSLY DIDNT READ MY AD OR THE TERMS. WHEN LOOKING AT A CAR YOU FORM YOUR OWN OPINION. OPINIONS DIFFER..

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Why not simply do the right thing by returning the car and refunding the guys money? Buyer eats shipping both ways and learns a lesson. Seller mentions he has another buyer and life goes on.

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

69HURST: see my post above, and take a hint...

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

Tell me what part of "Original Matching Engine" I don't understand?

Re: Needing reassurance on purchase
 

I BELIEVE THE MOTOR IS CORRECT FOR THIS CAR. I AM NOT ASKING YOU OR ANYONE ELSE TO AGREE OR DISAGREE. I PRESENTED AN OFFER TO THE BUYER FROM ANOTHER BIDDER, HE DECLINED.