Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

according to kevin suydams website there were eleven built and he and roger gibson claim its the only one left out of the eleven.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

in my opinion kevin suydam does not have the only L89 convertible but in the same right i do not believe that car is correct as a real L89 but even if i am wrong which i could be without documentation its not worth that kind of money in my opinion

just my 2 cents mike

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

I don't think it is either, Mike. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Yeah, that's a steep price tag for an undocumented car, but then look at the flip side, how's a Hemi Cuda conv without the original motor worth $1 million? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Noone knows how many L89 ragtops there were. 11 is a guess, I think it's more than that, seeing I know of 3 plus the two pacers. Still, they are rare. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

It would have been nice to have one clean pic of the whole pad, but I don't see any issues with the engine pad. The first 5 digits of the engine partial VIN match with another known block. Yes, the other pad has a foot on the 1.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Thankyou Kurt.....

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

so whats the verdict here after all the discussion is it real or not and what would you all pay for this car? it seem that seans copo chevelle is a steal at the price he is asking.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

In comparison with this one, I'd have to agree. But i'd take a 427 car over a 396 car w/aluminum heads even with equal documentation, just based on personal preference. Keep in mind that asking price and selling price are often far removed from each other too though. JMO.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Okay, I have sat back and watched all the fun so here is the history of the car:

I bought this car in August 2002. I was looking for a 1969 Camaro Big Block convertible. After searching and looking at cars for 8 months I came across an ad for a 396/350 Convertible. It was an old ad on a family’s website. I tried to contact the seller but the email address did not work. So I tried the family whose site had the ad and they sent me a new address for (Owner 5). After contacting him and asking him what he had in the way of Big Block Camaro convertibles he mentioned the L-89 and a couple of others that he had. The L-89 was intriguing. But (Owner 5) did not want sell it. After about a month of phone calls and prodding for some pictures I got (Owner 5) agree to sell the car. Then I did something you will all appreciate I tried to negotiate price! He listed the car on Camaro.net for sale. He called me and told me I had 24 hours to decide if I wanted it or he would sell it to the next person who wanted it. So I bought it. Can’t blame a guy for trying!

The car's condition at the time was decent, an older restoration from the mid 1980s but the car was never really used after that. The motor had been rebuilt but not totally put back together. (Owner 5) had the car for around 4 years. Car was located in Arizona when I purchased it.

(Owner 4) sold the car because he was going through a nasty divorce and his wife did not know about this car so he sold it. In that time he owned it he had started to have the engine rebuilt and did some detailing to the suspension. He did tell me that an employee of his carefully took out the instrument cluster. He said that it was absolutely original to the car and never taken out or touched before. (Owner 4) owned the car for 9 years. The car was located in Southern California.

(Owner 3) sold the car because he decided to restore it and was really unhappy about the job that was done especially to a ¼ panel that was replaced. (Owner 4) happened to visit (Owner 3)’s shop at the right time and bought the car. (Owner 3) obtained the car when he saw the car pass him going the other way while driving. He turned around and chased the car down. He noticed the 396 and SS badging. He noticed that the car had a high horsepower tach. He noticed that is had the correct deep groove pulleys. He also noticed that the car had the wrong manifold and carburetor. Asked the driver if he wanted to sell it. It seems that he was more than happy to sell it because the gas prices and mileage were killing him. He sold it and bought a Datsun!

The car when purchased by (Owner 3), for $3,500 I might add, it was in decent condition for an old Camaro. It was wearing its original Fathom green paint, black top, black interior. He decided to have the car restored. He said to me when I spoke with him that “just because someone made a color mistake when they order it, doesn’t mean that I am going to make the same mistake when I restore it”! He had the car redone in Lemans Blue and White. He never noticed the heads being aluminum because the engine was fully painted. He did tell me that he remembers the JJ codes on the block because he had a friend named JJ and he kept telling him he had a car with his name on it. (Owner 3) was in the business of buying and selling Camaros and their parts. He said he liked the big block convertible and 4 speed but it still was just another Camaro to him. You should hear his stories about cars he sold and parted out over the years for a few bucks!!!!!

(Owner 2) had seen an ad for the Convertible Camaro and bought it. He lived at the time in Michigan. He really wasn’t into cars and did not know much about this car when I talked to him. He does remember that the car had the High Horsepower Tach because when he was moving from Michigan to California he said he had the car at redline for like 20 minutes! And he did not blow it up! He did tell me that while he owned the car he blew the trans and had to replace it.

(Owner 1) I did not talk with because he passed away sometime ago. I did talk to his son-in-law. He told me that all he remembered was he went with his father-in-law to pick the car up in East Jordan, Michigan. When they got the car it had no engine and trans. He said a week or 2 later his father-in-law told him he had gotten the original motor and trans.

That is where the trail runs cold. Michigan purges their record after 10 years. I do have a lawyer who does insurance work trying to get the NICB to search their records.


In regards to some of the replies on my thread.

As far as listing a car like this on ebay. Ebay is one of the best places to market an automobile in the world. Cars that have value in the millions have sold. D-Type Jaguar $1.2 Million, Ferraris for over $1.5 million. Purchasers from all around the world monitor ebay for automobiles. Where else can you have 20,000 people take their time and look at a car you are trying sell?

As far as parts that are incorrect on my car. I know the car does not have the correct spoiler. The restoration shop has one painted for me if I wanted to put it on. I could not find a Walnut wheel that was worth the money when I restored the car so I left on the Rosewood wheel. Headlight buckets are now painted black. I had seen a lot of cars both ways so I did not know which was correct. The car has the correct fan blade but it is not date coded correct, the intake manifold is correct but has the wrong date code. The Trim tag that is on the car is a new one because the original (which I have) had the paint and interior color restamped. I was afraid to have it corrected because it would crack. I left the white interior in the car because it was the only way I like it with the Fathom green color and is easily changed. I have the original air cleaner top but it is not on the car because it was not as nice as the rest of the engine.

I do not have any paperwork. As I mention in my auction I have owner history, which is listed above. Would I like to have paperwork? Sure but do I believe that paperwork guaranties authenticity? Absolutely not. Just because a car has no paperwork does not mean that it a fake. In the ideal world I would like to have ALL paperwork and talk to the all the owners of the car and the selling dealer and the car would be untouched and original. Those cars are out there but they are far and few and on a different level. What matters is that the person who buys a car be comfortable with the purchase. Not the opinion of others.

As far as the question of the Block Stampings, I have requested, from Jerry, a copy of the stamping in his database that he compared with mine. From all the comparisons I have done, while I have owned the car, seem to match. Granted I might be tainted since I own the car. I also have had 3 knowledgeable, known, experts look at the stampings and say that they looked original and correct. But until I see exactly what Jerry looked at I really can’t respond to his comments directly. I would like to post it so everyone would be able compare them and make there own determination.

There is a better current shot of the pad and stampings attached.

As far as price goes, how do you put a price on car that one like it has never sold before? This car will make its own market price. Whatever price it sells for will be the baseline. It will only go up in value from there.

Thank You

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Good post, better info right there than in the ebay ad description.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

That is also why I have my phone number in the auction.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Was this car parked at a house in Ventura CA about 6 years ago by chance? I remember a blue L89 rag at a guy house that did Corvettes and Camaros then.

Jason

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

No, This car has been garaged and not running for well over 15 years. But do you have his name and address?

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

In that case the car may still be there. I don't think it was running at that time either. It was Blue. Sorry, I don't have his name or address. I'm sure Ican get it when I go try to find the car.

Jason

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

You all may think I am a jerk but, its a nice car, nice restoration and all that good stuff. when your paying 250,000 for car it better be completly correct in every way.all that typing on that posting still does not prove its a factory l-89 convert. Id bet if proof is put up there would be no problem getting tall money for the car. would any body here buy a 71 hemi cuda convert with no fender tag or build sheet with the wrong color interior because i say it is for 2 million? My thoughts would be prove it then post it. sorry but thats alot of cash for not being positive. signed the jerk

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Not to be a pain in the butt either, but I've seen that style "1" in other stampings now so it looks ok, but that style of "3" looks odd. Most of the stampings I've seen had the round "3". As for finding proof, how can you suddenly find proof when the original owner is passed away and the paperwork long gone with him?

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that's a steep price tag for an undocumented car, but then look at the flip side, how's a Hemi Cuda conv without the original motor worth $1 million? https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ] Correct documentation, an inspection from Galen Govier and of course, supply and demand. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif Patrick

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Question didnt all l89 have jl8 brakes and tapered axles from the factory? seems from research thats correct yes or no.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

[ QUOTE ]
Question didnt all l89 have jl8 brakes and tapered axles from the factory? seems from research thats correct yes or no.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the L89 aluminum head option had nothing to do with the JL8 4 wheel disc brake option. The factory installed JL8 option had the tapered axles because they were just stock rear axle assemblies with the disc brake components added. The HD disc rear was a completely different rear assembly so no tapered axles.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Paper work doesn't mean anything to me any more. Prime example The black 67 435 Vette at BJ https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif You have Very nice car period.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

I'm not sure, but I don't believe the Hemi Dart that sold at BJ had any paperwork or photos either.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

no it did not it was a rebody with no docs even the cobra that sold for 388,000 was nom. Kim is correct its a beautiful car but for 250,000 it should have docs now at 125,000 you got yourself one heck of a car. on the other hand the motion vette i bid on was fully documented and only went for 215,000 and that was a great car. i think we all agree nice car tall price for a car with no docs plain and simple.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

We are always consumed at least weekly about the number and documentation game. I hope before I croke there is a data base in place to solve some of these issues, probably wishful thinking.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Congrats to the owner for a thoughtful response. I'm sure many would have taken it personally and the thread could have gone down hill rapidly. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...iggthumpup.gif

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

I personally prefer documentation, but what if there's a desireable car with no paper work? Can past known car collectors / owners vouch for the car? Would the value of a car change or hold. John Q.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

we all have talked this car to death. is anyone going to step up and buy it? the bidding has not broken 150,000 yet on e-bay. you would think if it is the real deal with all the camaro and collectors out there this car would be sold by now. if you post a hemi cuda or a yenko or a motion vette it be gone. to a purist there is no chance of this car bringing 250,ooo. id be willing to bet he owns this car for awhile.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Wow, talk about overreacting. Most high end musclecars don't sell on Ebay. Just last month there was a known 69 Yenko on Ebay and it didn't sell either. Most people want to take time to examine a car and if that requires getting a flight to go and inspect it, then usually that doesn't happen within a week's time. Even without documentation, the cost of this car plus the full restoration is easily over $125K so it really comes down to who wants a rare convertible like this. Most guys here would rather have a 427 COPO or Yenko so they have no interest in this car. Somebody will end up buying this car and be very happy with it.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Ebay is a great way to advertise a car and potentially sell it. As I mentioned in my previous post the three Baldwin Motion cars and the L-78 Camaro convert I bought all were on Ebay at one time, but were purchased long after the cars did not sell through the Ebay auction.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Agree...E Bay is good advertising...

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

So after all the chat whats the verdict. Is it one of the 11 built.What would this car bring at Barrett in 06? I think its a sweet ride and the owner seems very honest about it and I agree you couldnt restore this car for that money. Is it a wise investment, I just may go look at it and see about buying it Im shore I would look good driving around town. What do you guys feel 150-200 is a good price or no.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Just my opinion: I would never consider a car for $200,000 plus without some documentation. If you buy this car, the burden of proof becomes yours in the future. There are many cars I would rather have other than an L89, and $200,000 will buy any of them with documentation, Good luck to the both the seller and, when sold, the buyer.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Of all the cars that were produced, who keeps all their documentation anyways. I know i never did as back than it did'nt occur to me that it was nessasary as I know what it is and did'nt care about resale value, not thinking that the car would actually be worth more than what i paid for it in the future and im sure many felt this way. I think buying a car today with original documentation is fortunate but not the breaker of a deal. Just becouse the car dosent have the paperwork dosent mean that it's not right. He simply wasent fortunate to have had it saved. Also with all the technology with forgery today who really knows for sure. I would question ANY documentation with ANY car. Back than why would most people save it?. Is it real?, well thats for the buyer to decide, if it is ...good on you!!. The things that are not original to the car is explained and really is not a big deal (they can be changed and the current owner likes it that way, remember it's his car not yours, if you don't like it buy it and change it than you can be proud of YOUR car), although the tag issue is a bit disconcerning. It's a very nice car and a great resto, $250K....YIKES, but hey sombody will buy it eventually, don't forget someone paid 1mill+ on a 68 z rag!!!. Although if i could find an L89 pacer....hmmmmmmmmmmm!

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Was this convert. owned by Merle Dupree ?
As far as I know, nobody has paid 1 mil for the 68 Z rag.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

I heard elsewhere the 68-z had exchanged hands.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Well it's up to 145K with 2 days left. Hmmmmmm.....

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

No paperwork is not the kiss of death if the car has some type of ownership history that can be traced and verified. I've owned cars where the paperwork is worth more than the car, a '67 L89 Corvette I sold in 1991 quadrupled in value shortly after the paperwork was found. It was not an original engine car and was thought to be a 435 horse steel head car. There are a number of L88's that have no paperwork and bring strong dollars, one in Dallas that is a low mile car would bring money comparable to a documented car. Do the paper trace, if it is made up, something will tip you off to this.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Tim, you are right. I have gone back as far as I can and even have an insurance lawyer trying to get the NICB to search their records. Everything back to 1980 checks out. Unfortunately the owner in 1980 has since died so I am stuck at that point. I do know the name of the town that he purchased the car from.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

69L89RAG:

I feel for anyone trying to put together documentation for one of these cars. I have a 69 Z/28 X77 D80 car. It came originally with the ducted hood. How do I know? In 1974, this car was sitting behind a repair shop with the trunk open. Someone I know very well stole the air cleaner assembly out of the trunk. He sold it for $20. I ended up buying the car two years later. By then the hood was gone, but it still had the relay on the firewall, and the correct outside throttle arm to mount the switch. Now that 99% of the 69 Z's have the ducted hood, how do I prove mine came that way. Before the goofy federal privacy laws were enacted I went to the Oklahoma Tax Commission and had them run a title search. Cost $1. Normally the title search would take you back to the original owner, provided that the car spent its whole life in OK. Would even show the selling dealer. What a deal. Only problem was, they dead ended at 1978, two years after I bought it. Seems that they "lost" a great deal of info in 1978 when they changed over computer systems. I still think the info is there somewhere, but no chance they are going to let me dig through archived records, or computer search archived records.


I can't even tell what dealer my car came from because the dealer emblem had been removed by the time I got to it. I did carefully measure the holes and record that measurement before welding the holes up.

I bought a silver Z/28 in 1971. Had the POP in the glove box. I even knew the first owner casually. What did I do with the POP? I threw it away of course, as it had no value to me at the time. Car has since been totalled beyond repair, so no big loss in that case.

Back to the L89. No doubt a beautiful car. Really bothers me that it has a repo trim tag. I guess it helps that you have the original. I do agree that white top and interior is far better looking than the black would be. Just not enough contrast with the black. Also bothered by the statement that one owner bought the car without engine and trans, then just happened to get the originals. Back in the 70's not many guys would have been that keen on hunting down the original drive train. Still quite possible. I have a buddy that bought a 69 Z did some research, found the original owner who still had all the smog parts sitting in his shed. Gave them to him for free, because he was just happy to look at his old car. So, yes some of those stories are out there. At the very least, I would get
Affidavits from all the known previous owners to document what history you do have.

Good Luck. Sorry this is so long.

Lynn Bilodeau

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

I hit the same problem with Michigan. They purge their records after 10 years.

I do have statements from the previous owners and they are happy to talk with a serious buyer.

Re: 1969 L-89 Convertible 4 Speed For Sale
 

Charley, the Merle Dupree car was the red car with black Z/28 stripes that just changed hands a couple of weeks ago at some auction.