Re: TUNNEL PORT RA V
 

Steve
I'm really interested to see where this all leads...in the end though, my guess is that it will come down to whose version of the 'truth" you want to believe... Until recently, I always took the "story" of this car portrayed by the 2 or 3 magazine articles I have and Wangers' book for face value... seems as though that was a mistake, as there appear to be more questions about this (these) car(s) than answers.... I'm anxious to see some more responses to this, as like you, I'd really like to know.

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Keith

I was just re reading this and looking back to see what I might have missed.

And BAM, the first two pics you posted have TWO Judges in them. One has the Thrust wheels similar to if not the exact car I posted way back up there from the magazine article.

I assume you were well on top of this. So what's the scoop? Is one of those the green car JW talks about?

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...stirthepot.gif

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Hey.... Keith started this one.

https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/haha.gif

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Wonder what happened to the 69 bird?

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What's funny is you hear about this Firebird over and over, yet it's not in any of the group photos? I have a 69 Drag Racing that has an article on a 69 Bird RAV that is probably it, I'll re read it later and see. I believe it was a two tone-ish blue car, maybe. Then there was an orange one that everyone goes on about.

I have other photos from what appears to be the same session as Keith, it has a light colored 65 in it. I believe that 65 GTO was in another magazine article with the Warren brothers.

Lots of loop holes in this whole story. The one thing I have heard several times, is there was only one partial pass made, in one car, with one motor.

So now I'm with Dave, did some one make up the rest of the story and figures?

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OK.... here are the goods.

With the Leader Engineering lettering, that would make this George's car. Safe assumption.

Obviously this car was in Florida, and had a RAV in at. Hopefully at the same place and time.

JW's Grand Prix and one of the two Judges are now at the same place and time. Proof is in the pic.

One page in the July 1969 Drag Racing

http://www.empgmc.com/race/drb.jpg

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it had a RA IV lower pan on it.Tom

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Sorry, we were talking about the Judges and I mentioned those 2 different sets of wheels already.

I did not think, for a second, that this discussion was about the Schultz's car and therefore did not include it in my comments concerning RA V the test cars.

So, if I "started something" I apologize and assure everyone that I was only posting those photos for the enjoyment of everyone.

I have met Mr. &. Mrs. "Billy Bobcat" and they are very nice people and good friends.

steved: I was trying to help keep the RA V discussion "lively" and really didn't care for the direction it was steered.

Sheesh.

Thanks to those who "alerted" me about what happened to this thread!
https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...mlins/wink.gif

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...Icons/bump.gif Now back to the RA V topic, I found this Motor Trend June of 69 article on the Trans Am and the 303 RA V Motor, Check it out

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...20V/page51.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...20V/page53.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...20V/page54.jpg

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If you save the images to your hard drive and view the pages with your photo viewer and zoom in you will be able to read these just fine. I could not get Photobucket to resize them large enought to be read within the body of the post.

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Sorry about that guys, let me try that one more time, I think I am going crazy http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...age_294343.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...20V/page51.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...20V/page53.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...20V/page54.jpg

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Dajudge... It's not working. If you can send me bigger files, I can load up.

Who are the people involved with these cars? Tom Goad had a car like that?

[email protected]

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I would like to see a larger pic of the X ram engine on the dyno.I have a X ram setup and am interested in the linkage.Tom

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Another page from Drag Racing July 1969. I believe I made the mistake of saying this car may be blue, some one told me a while back it was red. I hope that's right, hard to tell from black and whites. And I think some one else may have posted this particular picture some time back.

Drag Racing Page

http://www.empgmc.com/race/dd.jpg

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Sorry about that the pics are 6 megs a piece. They took about 5 minutes apiece for photobucket to upload. I will resize and do another upload tonight when I get home as the scanned images reside in my home PC.

Mike

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RAV related, Brian Steinbrick wrote an email to better explain the letter sent to his father from GM. Has some very cool history in it.

Warpath Page

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Steve, it was probably me that stated that the RAV car from Drag Racing Magazine was red with white stripes. I based this on a comment in the article that the car had a 350HO in it before the RAV transplant. The Super Stock Magazine issue had this 69 Firebird 350HO on the cover (in color), and this appears to be the same car as the RAV version. It was red with white stripes, white accents on the hood, lower rear quarter panels, and tail panel. The test of the 350HO car was before the RAV test.

It appears the car was built as a 350HO, not a 400, based on the fact that it did not have the Firebird 400 chrome grille trim surrounds, and the Firebird 400 only Pontiac arrowhead emblem on the front bumper. It appears that the ROYAL lettering on the door changed slightly between these two tests. But the miscellaneous contingency stickers over the rear wheelwells, and a few more on the fenders, are in the exact same positions between the two versions of this car, and the paint job is exactly the same (minus the 400 hood on the RAV test). Therefore, I'm pretty sure these were the same cars.

Personally, I like the 69 Firebird 455HO PMD Engineering Test Car. That was Carousel Red with 455 emblems. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

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Mike

The reason the lettering changed was because Ace would only allow a certain variation of the team name to be carried over to George's efforts, so I was told.

But yes I do remember now that it was you.

I would love to see color photos of both the cars you are talking about, I only have b/w copies of the magazine articles.

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Here's a link to another article that I scanned. It from the Oct 69 Motor Trend. Thanks for the link Steve


http://www.empgmc.com/race/rav/Page61.jpg

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Cool article Mike, what ever happened to the car that you got with the article? And why won't you answer any emails?

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Hi Dave sorry for not returning the e-mails. The car is in safe hands as I traded it for a car that I felt was more desirable... at least to me. The TA is in the hands of a collector and the article and paperwork you gave me went with the car. I scanned them in for my own future reference. Send me a pm with your phone number so that we can catch up. Best regards Mike https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

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This October 1970 Hot Rod was brought to my attention over on the PY board because of the Hemi Pontiac motor on the cover, I'll post the article on that motor next.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrodcovert.jpg

Full Size

But while looking through the magazine, the staff covered all the 71 cars coming out and evaluated them. Found an interesting mention on RAV.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod39rav.jpg

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod39t.jpg

Full Size

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Here is the goods on the Pontiac Hemi, looks like it had some RAV stuff or ideas.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod44t.jpg

Page 44
Page 45
Page 46
Page 47
Page 48

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod47a.jpg
http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct70hotrod48a.jpg

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In this July 1969 Super Stock, it is claimed that this Judge is "the one" that was tested in Florida with the RAV motor. Take a close look at the two engine shots included within the article, take a close look at the shroud on page 35 and the sub frame on 70 and see what kind of car you think the engine shots are from. Notice also the extra webbing in the lifter valley which makes it a RAV block.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/july69superstockt.jpg

Full Size Cover

Page 34
Page 35
Page 70

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/july69ss35a.jpg

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/july69ss70a.jpg

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October 1984 Car Craft, Pontiac SOHC. Another what if motor, very cool.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct84carcraftcovert.jpg

Full Size Cover

Page 45
Page 47

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/oct84carcraft47a.jpg

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steve,get the mar 1968 hotrod if you really want to see what the factory had on the drawing board.Mac is on the cover with many great engines along with many internals on the inside.Tom

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I'm on it!

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Tom

Do you know if the RAV had a unique oil filter adapter in relation to the IV and the rest of the Pontiac adapters?

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the only reason you would need a special adapter is for castiron exhaust.I would LOVE to know!LOL,Tom

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There is an angle I'm working on that concerns the adapter. I didn't see one on Brian's parts list, so I was hoping you or Lance would know if there is a special adapter.

Yes I would think manifolds would create a special need, but chances are the IV or HO adapter would have addressed the issue.

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I think I used the long branch adapter on the GTO to allow the longer filter.The T/A has a short deck which is completetly diff as the filter screws right onto the block.Tom

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This is a slight departure from the thread, just an interesting dyno test I found from 69.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phrcovert.jpg

Full Size Cover

Page 44
Page 45
Page 46
Page 47
Page 48
Page 49

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/feb69phr350ho.jpg

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Page 97 from Feb 69 PHR

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Tom

This one's for you, if you haven't seen it before. April 1983 High Performance Pontiac.

Wanger, RAV, 1 of 13 Swiss cars, and Aluminum frames.

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/april83hpp24t.jpg

Page 24

http://www.empgmc.com/magazines/april83hpp25t.jpg

Page 25

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I think that is the car that Bill Blair now ownes.I bought the engine out of it a few months ago.It had a factory intake with a dominator when I got it.Tom

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I was just about to ask Mr. Glasgo if he knew the current on the car since is was suppose to be in Ohio with the Heck Brothers.

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Tom...the Demetri car had plexiglass

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when I saw the Demitri car it had a auto,plexy and the battery in the trunk.That was before it was "snaked" from under me!LOL

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The Heck boys STILL have the alu frame,I really dont think it was under a car.PJ told me it was hanging in the barn.When I was a Bills,the Swiss Cheese car was there with the V engine in it.I bought the engine a few months ago and resold it to Larry Crosby in AZ.He is looking for a 69 bird to put it in.Bill was putting a 421 SD engine back in the SC car.Tom