Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

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Now, and I think this is important, many young people today don't know or care about originality or authenticity. They like our cars for the looks not the cowl tag. Thus, a cloned Z28 with dubs and a killer stereo is even more valuable than a numbers matching original. They're the ones buying 20-30 years from now when many of us are racing at that dragstrip in the sky.

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This is probably the most important part of this debate.

What exactly will our cars be worth to the next round of
buyers? I too worry about that when I see the "ricer"
market and also the fact that each new generation seems to
be suffering from an increasing lack of work ethic. I fear
that they would rather buy a "looker" cheap than a high
priced real car. I'm sure there will be exceptions - there always are.

Based on the recent introduction (to the resto-mod market)
of the aftermarket 69 Camaro body, I think we are seeing
the start of this trend. I will be watching the acceptance
of that "Camaro" closely.

It's clear that we all love our cars and respect each others
accomplishments with our respective restorations. No one is
challenging that I'm sure. With the relatively high number
of recent Yenko, ZL-1, etc. clones on eBay selling for what
I consider to be respectable money, you have to wonder. I
frankly was somewhat shocked ( and still am ) to see so many
cloned Supercars out there. The big question is how long
have many of these cloned Supercars been in existance. Were
they created to resell, or for the enjoyment of the owner.
I am starting to think that most of them were "manufactured"
for potential resale value. That takes us full circle on
this topic.

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

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So if someone has the means and determination to buy one, they are not "true" enthusiast by your definition??

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I think you are refering to an extreme minority when you assume that the average musclecar enthuiast can afford to spend 100k or really even 50-75k on a car in one shot. Usually the guys that are enthusiast are having to buy a car and then over a period of time restore it as money permits. These cars were never made for the minority..keep in mind they were built for the masses as general transportation. I think you are trying to say this site and the income levels represented here are the "norm" in the hobby and as such the cars are still witin reach of most enthusiast. I would beg to differ...Take your RG Yenko to a local cruise and offer it for sale at what you feel is the current going rate...how many guys will say "nice car, wish I could afford it?" I would wager that you probably wouldn't get many credible offers on the car...Better yet try it with a LS6 at 100k...If the cars haven't priced themselves out of the enthusiast market then you should have a majority that can afford it and see the value asked..

I think you are really trying to apply the thougths of an extreme minorty represented here to the whole market...The bottom line is these cars were never rare or collectible in the first place and once the cars as a whole price themselvs out of the market where the majority of enjoyers can afford them then the prices on ALL the car will drop...Don't think it can happen...do alittle research and look back to the first "boom"

As far as Gen X'ers earning a majority of money..actually that isn't the case..I'm a gen'xer and while our income levels on paper are higher than where the previous generation is, we also come into "life" with more debt..ie: student loans, having to buy into housing at a higher cost without the benefit of equity, startig careers and raising familes, etc..so to say that Gen X will be able to afford these cars doesn't make any sense..You have the benefit of disposable income as a result of already raising your family, owning a home and establishing equity, being "seasoned" in a profession, carrying less debt over all..hence you can afford and more importantly see the value today...Will someone of genX see the value in 10 years when we are in your economic situation now?? Take you car to a local school or youth event..ask both car enthusiast and none car enthusiast if they would pay 250k for a Yenko, provided they had that amount of money laying around in disposable income...What will be their answer?? Now explain that the only real difference between your car and a clone is perhaps a serial number and some dates..which can always be added (the dates at least) if it matters..and the clone can be built for less... way less than half.. Will they say "yes" or look at you like you are crazy? Maybe truly original cars will always be worth more money and noone is disputing that...but the biggest problem is you can build the exact same car in terms of looks, performance and visual appeal for a lot less and the future generations will not care about "numbers" Take a look at the gorgeous ZL1 recreation that just sold for 89k or so..that is what...maybe 20% or less of a real car...yet to probably 90% or the folks out there offers just as much pleasure if not more...plus you can save the extra 600k+ and use it in other areas..

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The reality is it's a have and have not world.Lusting over a car you can't afford isn't going to change the fact these already have pretty much changed into higher income hands.There are no more free lunches,and when the real deals surface cough up or take a pass fearing your purchase will be the harbinger to wholesale market collapse.The more likely scenario is they will continue to appreciate.LS6 cars were categorically made for the minority considering they only made 4k and change out of nearly half million 70 A's. These were highly anticipated,and until the C6Z the highest HP car to come from GM in four decades-hardly your mass transportation unit.When will the trend reverse? Matt's tripoli turquoise 68Z just brought 85k,is that the new valuation for one like that in todays market? What about SD's? they seem to have gone to 80k overnight.Like LS6's at 100+,all were selling for half those prices two to three years ago-but every year people are in shocked amazement when new highs are seen.Maybe the Mopars are the one's that are "overpriced" for todays "average" collector and GM muscle is seen as an attractively priced?.That would certainly explain the increasing valuations.Like Warren Buffet says don't invest in anything you aren't prepared to lose 50% of it's value on,but clearly here the trend is your friend my brother!.This site and the income levels here ARE the norm for this hobby,nobody takes yenkos to cruise nights with for sale signs they go to BJ!. For anyone that has cashed in recentely more power to em,but attempting to predict and time a sliding market for re entry is hopeful at best.Most anyone that has sold a special car wishes they hadn't,i'm no different and it's not always about the money.It's a whole new ballgame now rife with fraud and greed and hard cuts soft,everytime.

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

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.....Most anyone that has sold a special car wishes they hadn't, I'm no different and it's not always about the money. It's a whole new ballgame now rife with fraud and greed and hard cuts soft, everytime.

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This whole thread nicely summed up in 2 sentences. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...lins/beers.gif

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

If the debate at this point is primarily centered on the popularity / value of musclecars 10-15 years from now then I would agree that there will be a decline in interest due primarily to shifting demographics as has been noted.

In the meantime, 10-15 years is a long time from my perspective to enjoy and benefit from these cars. Some of us will enjoy them longer than that regardless of market conditions. Prior to this oncoming potential shift of interest I believe most will continue to benefit financially by their ownership of these cars. One could make a case that the market could even get stronger for these cars. Anyone know what a narrow trading range stock market is? We're in one now that has lasted approx. 6 years where gains have been minimal overall. These narrow trading range markets can last 10-15 years. There have been several of them since the beginning of the stock market. The last lengthy one was from '65-'81. Factoring in inflation during this period investors would have lost approx 1% on their investments over this 15 yr. period. Some believe we could be headed into another long narrow market for years to come. If that develops these cars could continue their rate of appreciation as some traditional investors look for other investment channels in which to place some of their money.

Back to the original post I hope Mr. Castine and his buyer come out OK on this. Eventually some enterprising car enthusiast/s is going to grow a consultant business to help combat unsuspecting buyers. I'm not talking about brokers or services that rate the general condition of a car but someone who knows certain makes/models and might charge a fee to examine a car and its pedigree. I know there are some businesses out there that offer this type of service already but they are generalists at this point. I'm talking about the guy that knows his Chevelles inside and out or Camaros, or whatever. Someone who represents a buyer but has no financial incentive whatsoever in the purchase or sale of the car. May not be able to guarantee 100% protection of fraud to the buyer but I'll bet many would still use the service if this specialist has or grows a positive reputation. In the meantime this website and others do a good job of keeping some of us informed.

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

OK - FINE!

I have a solution as far as I am concerned. When I die,
just strap me in the drivers seat and lower me and my
Camaro into the ground. Everybody wins...... https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ins/tongue.gif

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

The real one or fake one!!

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

Stuart! You just had to go there - huh?

The fake one of-course! What am I - stupid?! https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...ns/naughty.gif

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

I have given this topic a lot of thought lately I have always bought my cars to drive them its has reached the point where driving my Yenko Camaro isn’t fun like it used to be. Being a original body panel car and the knowing that’s something that can not be replaced if something should happen I might as well be driving any car since I can not treat it like it was built to be driven. There probably are not many Yenko Camaros still driven but next week mine will probably go on a 80 mile car cruise to a car show and I know I will probably get crazy with it a few times and if something would to happen it would be terrible.
I started off having my first muscle car when I was 17 but that led to drag racing I drag raced until I was 25 but it got to be so expensive I had to quit. I then spent the next 25 years owning muscle cars Chevy Fords Mopars it didn’t matter they were all a blast to own and drive. Its gone full circle since I bought that 67 Chevelle I have gone to the track a few times I realized its much cheaper to go racing then to afford most muscle cars.
I havent even signed up for the reunion yet since I always enjoyed getting there on Thursday and taking my car off the trailer and not putting it back on until Saturday after the show. With all the stolen cars that you here about you better keep it in a trailer under lock and key.
There arent many Yenko Camaros that are still driven and I can understand why with the incredible prices they are and it is almost impossible to restore one with nos parts anymore. Theese are special pieces of muscle car history and most are in collections right now and Im sure the ones that arent soon will be Im pretty sure mine will be very soon and the prices of these type of low production muscle cars will keep going . I do believe there is a place for clone cars but not at these prices all they are is another Camaro with a big motor.

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

John,

A lot of non-believers feel that's what the day 2 Supercars
are anyway - just another Camaro, Nova, Chevelle with a big
motor. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/imag...emlins/eek.gif Ask the Corvette guys https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Re: I need help to authenticate a LS6 Convertible
 

Steve, even a Yenko your still only buying just another Camaro your just paying for the history of it. Dont tell the Corvette guys that.